DesktopBSD 2.0 roadmap

Discussion in 'Development' started by malco_2001, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. jmdennis

    jmdennis Member

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    It is nice to see progress. One of the things I liked about desktopbsd over pcbsd at the time was doing the updates. I liked how desktopbsd did updates in that they would update every thing that needed to be updated by checking freebsd which at the time was different and still is to how pcbsd does it. I like what you are considering doing for the updates. I for one love rolling releases and like being able to install once and update as often as the software updates are made. I also like having a hardened version with all the breaches I would like to know I was more secure. I am very interested in seeing more of this and trying this out as I really miss desktopbsd.
     
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  2. KyBlackwolf

    KyBlackwolf Member

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    I'd agree with jmdennis...one of the benefits of the update style desktopbsd had was simplicity, and it allowed the end user to know exactly what was going to be installed. I'll give it to malco though, some of the tools he's made for gnome are nice. I won't lie, I'm more of a KDE3/TDE or Openbox type of guy simply because who needs all the bells and whistles, but I can appreciate the work and willingness to take the lead.

    My only other comment on the roadmap would be if we are sincerely looking to make this new BSD the best for desktop users with regard to updates, security, and useability, should we consider using the base of Openbsd if for no other reason than it's built in security features are in some ways unrivaled by the other BSD variants along with it's tiny OS footprint? Has anyone considered HardenedBSD? I'd think they would be very interested in the launchd integration Malco is working on.

    My other thought though would be the consideration of dragonflybsd with it's hammer file system that at least based on some testing thus far is on par with ZFS and could be extended considerably if the developer has his way.

    The point of my post is not to start any controversy or knock M1 off course, merely to keep the lines of conversation open. I'm sure others will disagree with me, and that's great, I'd prefer it that way so we can all keep learning. Regardless, I'm happy to do anything i can to help from development to graphic design, even web development.
     
    #22 KyBlackwolf, Oct 7, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
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  3. malco_2001

    malco_2001 DesktopBSD Veteran

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    Actually it will be based upon the NextBSD-CURRENT-HARDENED branch which is HardenedBSD with launchd. Most of the launchd stuff is coming from NextBSD. I'm just integrating the gnome stack on top.
     
  4. malco_2001

    malco_2001 DesktopBSD Veteran

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    Also regarding Gnome this will be a very lite version without all of the bloat you don't want like evolution, or epiphany for example. It will include a better terminal emulator as well.
     
  5. jmdennis

    jmdennis Member

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    I look forward to this and hope that we can try some thing out soon. I have mainly used KDE versions since starting on Linux a long time ago and never really liked Gnome. At the moment I am using Ubuntu 15.04 and like it very much. For me I have what I want always to the left on the screen and can use what I want when I need it. I like this better then the way most versions of KDE are. I like KDE in that you have many more options on making changes then you do with Gnome but I look forward to what you have coming and will give it a try and see what I think.
     
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  6. SoloBSD

    SoloBSD Member

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    Hi, and congratulations on this new approach of the project.

    I am excited to see this grow.
    Some questions. Is it possible to add Lumina DE? and about the customized shell, how about porting mksh from MirBSD? What about UEFI?

    Thanks!
     
  7. KyBlackwolf

    KyBlackwolf Member

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    Right now, the base install will be based on GNOME3, however, you will still be able to install whichever DE you prefer such as lumina. The shell will be the traditional shell (sh) that runs in Freebsd, however again, you will be able to customize that if you wish using the freebsd handbook. Down the road switching the main shell may be something we could look at, but based on conversations I've been part of so far, it's not a top priority at this moment. Stay tuned, this can always change.
     
  8. malco_2001

    malco_2001 DesktopBSD Veteran

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    UEFI will be supported. I've committed fixes for ZFS on EFI to NextBSD.
     
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  9. SoloBSD

    SoloBSD Member

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    Glad to hear that, I want to get rid of OpenSUSE :D
     
  10. dinsdale

    dinsdale Member

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    This sounds like fun. I watched the presentation on Next that was posted on Google+ (FreeBSD Central I think?) and have been following their github notifications since then. Rolling release using pkgng for updates is head-smaking-ly simple! I use PC-BSD as my daily driver right now and love it. I'll definitely give this a spin in a virtual machine asap (right next to Minix3!!!).
     
  11. Braulio

    Braulio New Member

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    I am so happy this project has reborn. I really loved the way DesktopBSD did things. For instance, having graphic interfaces for package management and users that were wrappers to the command line tools. I really hated the PBI way of PC-BSD. I am not fan of Gnome. I like interfaces made with QT. But since it is your time invested I respect your choices. I also appreciate the fact that you are maintaining the look of DesktopBSD and respecting what it was. :)

    I came here by accident because I was looking a YouTube video. It was such a nice surprise. :D
     
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  12. Lucas Holt

    Lucas Holt New Member

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    Just to clarify, if you guys really want to be unique, going with launchd + GNUstep + etoile was something I had been trying to do with MidnightBSD for some time. If you're serious about using GNUstep, perhaps our projects could collaborate on the desktop aspect of it.
     
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  13. malco_2001

    malco_2001 DesktopBSD Veteran

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    Hi Lucas. I have been reading about MidnightBSD for some time. I am interested in GNUStep, and Etoile. I'd certainly be interested in helping the MidnightBSD project with those at some point when I have a few spare cycles. I've been working with Enlightenment a lot recently as well.

    Overall Gnome is just a little easier for me to implement in the short term than alternatives such as Enlightenment. This is partially due to various crippling bugs that make it difficult to get a working install out of box. Although a more unique interface, one with less of a footprint, and a BSD licensed alternative would be more desirable in the future.
     
    #33 malco_2001, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  14. Charles Cowart

    Charles Cowart New Member

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    I couldn't agree with this direction, more. I'll do my best to pitch in.
     
  15. dinsdale

    dinsdale Member

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    So.... most of the website still refers to DesktopBSD as a FreeBSD distro with KDE. Other sites are starting to pick up the same language. Can I suggest we update the website to reflect the new roadmap? Let me know if you would like me to help.
     
  16. dinsdale

    dinsdale Member

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    "DesktopBSD 2.0 is a new branch of the NextBSD operating system. The project is another answer to the existential question, "what is a desktop?". DesktopBSD is similar to GoshtBSD, PC-BSD and MidnightBSD as a viable alternative to GNU licensed desktop software based on FreeBSD. However, Desktop 2.0 will differentiate itself by supporting radical breaks from the current BSD paradigms. NextBSD has been described by it's co-creator Jordan Hubbard as “a science project" variant of FreeBSD. It includes the Darwin (OS X) initialization system launchd, as well as security enhancements created by the HardenedBSD team. Like most other GUI OSes, the focus of DesktopBSD will be an easy to install operating system with a modern look and feel. The DesktopBSD project seeks to bring these qualities to the desktop user through a clean Gnome 3 user interface and a radical new approach to BSD software updates using the existing pkgng.

    Stay tuned, this ride's gonna be good..."
     
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  17. KyBlackwolf

    KyBlackwolf Member

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    Dinsdale, very nice work...a true artist with words. I really like how you broke it all down. Two points we need to clarify as a group...

    1.) Do we want to say DesktopBSD is a branch of NextBSD? Or, do we still want to say it's a branch of FreeBSD since that's the parent project of NextBSD, and we arent using all of NextBSD's technology, at least from what I have gathered so far. I could be mistaken, and if so, my appologies.

    2.) I think the we need to be very careful about the wording of "viable alternative to GNU licensed desktop software". I'm a huge proponent of using our own BSD licensed software, much more so than most know maybe with the exception of Malco as we've had significant converstions about this already. Unfortunately, right now, we do use a heck of a lot of GNU licensed software including Gnome3 so I'm not sure we can put that in project description until we have a viable alternative which we arent currently really working on yet.

    Now that the mini break some of us took from the project here in the states for the thanksgiving holiday is over, we should be able to get more feedback, and opinions in the next few days Dinsdale. Regardless, I really like what you've written. Kudos to you and a like +1!
     
  18. dinsdale

    dinsdale Member

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    Thanks KyBlackwolf, I will give you my opinions backwards:
    2) Yes, quite right. I have updated the text below to reflect a different wording.
    1) I believe that the fork of NextBSD and FreeBSD will be rather permanent. Here is my opinion:
    • NextBSD is a significant architectural change to FreeBSD. That in my mind rates it as it's own fork (they call it a spork), but I am no authority. I would even say it's a larger fork than OpenBSD or DragonFly when they started.
    • NextBSD is a "science project". Let FreeBSD be the stable code base. NextBSD should be bringing new features. If by some miracle FreeBSD decides to accept launchd, will DBSD fold into FreeBSD? OR, would it continue to take on the radical changes that NextBSD will inevitably continue to bring? I think the intention of the DBSD project is to be the desktop version of that "science project". (oh, I like that line. I'll add it...)
    So, if it's true that Desktop will continue following NextBSD changes, that makes me think the project would truly be a branch of NextBSD (then again, until it isn't!).

    Rev 2.

    "DesktopBSD 2.0 is a new branch of the NextBSD operating system. The project is an answer to the existential question, "what is a desktop?". DesktopBSD is similar to GoshtBSD, PC-BSD and MidnightBSD as being a viable alternative to GNU/Linux desktop software. However, DesktopBSD 2.0 will differentiate itself by supporting radical breaks from the current BSD paradigms. NextBSD has been described by it's co-creator Jordan Hubbard as “a science project" variant of FreeBSD. NextBSD includes the Darwin (OS X) initialization system launchd, as well as security enhancements created by the HardenedBSD team. It will inevitably bring other cutting edge changes. The D2BSD project is to be the desktop version of that "science project".

    Like most other GUI OSes, the goals of DesktopBSD will be two fold: easy installation and a modern look and feel. Like other BSDs, it benefits from an excellent package management system. The DesktopBSD project seeks to bring these qualities to the desktop user through a clean Gnome 3 user interface and a radical new approach to BSD software updates using the existing pkgng. We would like to bring you our spin on the modern computer desktop.

    Stay tuned, this ride's gonna be good..."
     
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  19. KyBlackwolf

    KyBlackwolf Member

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    Again great job, and nice revisions.
     
  20. malco_2001

    malco_2001 DesktopBSD Veteran

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    I like it. I am hesitant to say fork of NextBSD as well. If anything we will be merging features from many different branches of FreeBSD by using the merging features of git. Things could change at any time in order to meet the end goals of the project.

    It is more appropriate to say fork of FreeBSD with features merged in from other projects such as NextBSD, and HardenedBSD. However I am hesitant to even say that much just yet. I would like to hold off until we start approaching at least a beta status where we are sure about what features will stay in, and which features will not be part of a final release.
     
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